tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post4325136091384205344..comments2023-12-18T20:54:32.058-05:00Comments on QuizMasterChris' Pub Quiz Blog & Infoporium: Mafia Minstrel Show: Good riddance SopranosChris Randolphhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-85734277650630974622007-06-25T21:42:00.000-04:002007-06-25T21:42:00.000-04:00If the show really isn't about the mafia, why is i...If the show really isn't about the mafia, why is it set in the mafia? Why must it be Italian mafia? No one is even attempting to answer that question.<BR/><BR/>Apparently Tony Soprano's original name was Tommy Soprano, but that wasn't stereotypical enough. Apparently HBO had a gun added to the logo in case viewers had the mistaken impression that the show was about opera, which while Italian has the distinct disadvantage of being cultured.<BR/><BR/>Why not just call the character Guido Wopface?Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-14199662945420013762007-06-25T02:10:00.000-04:002007-06-25T02:10:00.000-04:00OK, so I am late coming in. I have known you long...OK, so I am late coming in. I have known you long enough to know what a pain in the ass person you are to deabte, since you never allow one inch to the other person. Sigh, you can be a frustrating person--but, you are putting yourself out there. Kudos.<BR/><BR/>That said, here's my 2 pennies:<BR/><BR/>The Sporanos is a wonderful show because it is written well and has very interesting characters. It is a show about the loss of humanity and goodness in a heartless, soulless, consumerist, disconnected, suburban society. The opening credits where Tony drives from NYC to his McMansion is a metaphor for the entire Northeastern United States and the ethnic experience in America. <BR/><BR/>I am aware you have not watched much of it. <BR/><BR/>The show deals much more with living and coping in our modern world. The mafia shit is really in the back seat. In fact, the past two seasons have been more about masculinty and homosexulaity (Vito), family issues, dreams, and psychology. <BR/><BR/>People in my office complain that not enough people get whacked.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, like any wonderful work of serialized fiction (and I am comparing this body of work to Dickens), the show uses some stock characters and some stereotypes to move its story forward. <BR/><BR/>It also has a wicked sense of humor, something you possess. Give it a chance, Crand-O. For the children.<BR/><BR/>BTW, Mean Streets, you don't like Mean Streets!!???!! I hear movie night calling.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-81314410402575951962007-06-25T00:17:00.000-04:002007-06-25T00:17:00.000-04:00Cowbell -Two problem-framing problems:You've spent...Cowbell -<BR/><BR/>Two problem-framing problems:<BR/><BR/>You've spent a lot of time arguing that I don't notice the positive images of Italians in media (partially by citing my failure to list every mafia movie ever made as prove of their non-existance!). But this has never been my argument. My problem is the fact that when mob movies are made, the chracters are Italian-American out of proportion to the actual organized crime which is Italian-American in the US. That's a larger problem.<BR/><BR/>The logical hole, I just realized, in comparing the Sopranos to the NY mob (by the figures you provide from the feds' website) is that you're not only comparing what happened over a decade ago to today (and over a longer period than the Sopranos was on the air), but comparing the activity of about 10 characters at maximum to the criminal output of at least 880 people!<BR/><BR/>We should be, even rather conservatively and generously to your side, multiplying that 35 figure by at least a factor of 88. That's 3,080 murders! Were there 3,080 mafia murders by the NY mob over the past 17 years or so? Anything close to that? If not, again, the Sopranos was a cartoon (which is, incidentally, a word modified from the Italian...)<BR/><BR/>I only bring this up because the defense of the Sopranos is its "realism," and I call shenanigans on said "realism."<BR/><BR/>Another good article:<BR/><BR/>http://www.zmag.org/<BR/>sustainers/content/<BR/>2005-06/13parenti.cfmChris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-32240290455400609542007-06-24T17:36:00.000-04:002007-06-24T17:36:00.000-04:00What refusal to give evidence? That I haven't dra...What refusal to give evidence? That I haven't drawn up a comprehensive list of all Italian mob characters in the history of TV and movies? Is that reasonable?<BR/><BR/>What I have done is demonstrate that the numbers of murders by Italian mob depicted on the Sopranos is out of all proportion to those which actually occur by an order of magnitude or three.<BR/><BR/> I have also shown that less than 1/1000th of 1% of Italian-Americans are in the mob. Now why don't you tell me, given that, what makes a movie like "Mafia Doctor" appropriate?<BR/><BR/>To "Tony Soprano" - I never claimed that no mafia ever did or does exist. Go back, read for meaning, then try and post a relevant funny again.Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-76020708397465970752007-06-22T03:24:00.000-04:002007-06-22T03:24:00.000-04:00"There is no mafia.""There is no mafia."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-58649835026266986222007-06-22T03:23:00.000-04:002007-06-22T03:23:00.000-04:00So, your refusal to give evidence proves your poin...So, your refusal to give evidence proves your point?<BR/><BR/>In our house, this is called The Fingers-in-the-Ears-La-La-La Defense.<BR/><BR/>I didn't think you were trying to mislead, I think you did shoddy research.<BR/><BR/>It's an unfortunate tendency of the passionate to see only that which supports their point, and ignore that which detracts.<BR/><BR/>If you're going to claim hundreds, be prepeared to show hundreds, or you're not going to be believed. (except by someone who alredy believes it.)<BR/><BR/>But who needs evidence of anything these days? That's how we ended up with a smoking ban (which I know you oppose, so sit domn.)<BR/><BR/>Just saying. Interesting parallel.<BR/><BR/>You're still one of the smartest people I know, even if you have a small percentage of dumb stuff in your head.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-57498703272306863232007-06-20T08:35:00.000-04:002007-06-20T08:35:00.000-04:00Smoking ban article - funny!This is how the list o...Smoking ban article - funny!<BR/><BR/>This is how the list of the Family Values site (the_Sopranos.com) bills itself:<BR/><BR/>"TOTAL Body Count: Shot by Shot<BR/><BR/>Death toll so far = 79"<BR/><BR/>It's not like I'm trying to mislead people; this is the way the fan site itself describes the deaths. I didn't go through every season's listings in the assumption that there were natural causes involved; clearly that's not why people are watching the show either. Is there a Body Count for House fans?<BR/><BR/>Absence of evidence doesn't equal evidence of absence. You can't say that because I haven't taken the time to make a comprehensive list of mafia films and TV programming that it just isn't there.<BR/><BR/>Here's a particularly egregious example:<BR/><BR/>http://www.imdb.com/<BR/>title/tt0345605/<BR/><BR/>"Mafia Doctor"! Sheesh. If your doctor has a vowel at the end of his name, clearly he was put through med school by the Cosa Nostra to sew up their bullet wounds on the sly. That was made in 2003, not 1933. Major network.<BR/><BR/>Can we imagine the equivalent of this show being made about any other ethnic group? "Christian Baby Blood Harvesting Yid Doctor," or "Free Access to Cafeteria Chicken and Watermelon for His Homies Darkie Doctor" maybe. "Me Put Pee Pee in Your Bladder"<BR/><BR/>I have to leave for work again (sigh...), see you this evening.Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-18440179942785677482007-06-20T08:12:00.000-04:002007-06-20T08:12:00.000-04:00btw: This story was my favorite.Smoking Ban Sparks...btw: This story was my favorite.<BR/><BR/><B>Smoking Ban Sparks Mob Fisticuffs</B><BR/>http://www.ganglandnews.com/<BR/>column512.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-50288681299639136982007-06-20T08:09:00.000-04:002007-06-20T08:09:00.000-04:00If you don't like to include Romans as a positive ...If you don't like to include Romans as a positive depiction of Italians on TV, we can cross those off the list then. <BR/><BR/>The number changes from 211 to 209. <BR/><BR/>From your list of movies from the "endless stream" there are a few that have nothing to do with the Mafia, and four that are gangsters, but not mafia. (Al Capone is not mafia.)<BR/><BR/>Half of them are comedies poking fun at the mob. "Corky Romano" is a "mafia" movie? That's like calling "Johnny Dangerously" a "gangster" movie.<BR/><BR/>Not quite the "hundreds" you complained about earlier. If there were so many, surely you could have come up with a lot more.<BR/><BR/>What's wrong with a move like "A Bronx Tale"? It's based on Chazz Palmintieri's experiences as a boy in the 60s, and the rejection of the "mob" life in favor of the wisdom of his hard-working blue-collar father.<BR/><BR/>What's wrong with "Donnie Brasco"? It's based on the story of Joe Pistone, an FBI agent who was instrumental in the downfall of the Bonnano family, at great personal hardship. It's an interesting story.<BR/><BR/>I have no idea how many murders were committed by the "real-world" mafia since 1999. We only find out about them when someone gets caught.<BR/><BR/>It's been happening more and more as one guy flips on others to reduce his sentence, then they start yapping. The days of omerta are over.<BR/><BR/>There are quite a few high-profile trials happening now. Most notable are the two NYPD detectives (with regrettably Italian names) convicted last year of eight murders, along with assorted racketeering charges. <BR/><BR/>There was a big splash last year as well, when 32 mob guys were indicted on murder and racketeering charges. <BR/><BR/>This stuff is easy to Google, but you have to want to.<BR/><BR/>Jerry Capeci has been writing the Gang Land column since the 80s for various New York papers. It is now online:<BR/><BR/>http://www.ganglandnews.com/<BR/>previous.htm<BR/><BR/>His writings confirm that the New York mob is a dim shadow of its former self, but not dead. (With the rate they rat each other out, they will be quite soon.)<BR/><BR/>This one is quite interesting:<BR/><BR/>http://americanmafia.com/<BR/>Mob_Hits/1991_04_update.html<BR/><BR/>It's a list of all deaths with alleged mob ties in North America, gleaned from newspapers and magazines. It includes all deaths, including suicides and natural causes, through 2003.<BR/><BR/>I think the NY wartime hits of the 90s come pretty close to the 35 hits on the Sopranos.<BR/><BR/>Now you have some real numbers. I have no stomach for that kind of nonsense, especially coming from you, who are one of the smartest people I know.<BR/><BR/>The most irritating aspect of this discussion is that you are criticizing a show you have never seen, and probably never will.<BR/><BR/>And that's too bad. It's high-quality television.<BR/><BR/>You can either insist you are right about "hundreds" of movies and TV shows in an "endless stream" of mafia depictions OR<BR/><BR/>You can take comfort in the fact that mafia films are far fewer than you perceive, and that the vast majority of appearances of Italian-American characters are doctors, lawyers, cops, bus drivers, and everything else that normal people are.<BR/><BR/>It's too bad you don't notice them, because they do your grampa proud.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-77879532653186247362007-06-19T23:53:00.000-04:002007-06-19T23:53:00.000-04:00I found the site in question. Their body count of ...I found the site in question. Their body count of 79 includes <B>every</B> death on the show, including those from natural causes, suicides, and murders alluded to in conversation.<BR/><BR/>After reading the episode guides, I counted around 35 actual murders, some of which were committed by the Sopranos rivals.<BR/><BR/>Some of those were not "mob hits," but things like a woman shooting her abusive husband.<BR/><BR/>The show is also not "real time." Time bewteen episodes can be weeks or months.<BR/><BR/>Tony's core group of made guys is Paulie Walnuts, Silvio, Christopher, and Bobby. Those are the ones that lasted all six seasons.<BR/><BR/>There have been others who have lasted only one season, like Richie Aprile, Tony Blundetto, Ralph Cifaretto, Big Pussy, and Spoons.<BR/><BR/>Another thing you need to take into account is that much of the whackings take place during power plays within the organization, and wars between rival groups. Between these are long periods of calm.<BR/><BR/>The body count on the Sopranos if far less than that on your average crime drama. If I were chose a town based on a TV show, I'd pick North Caldwell, New Jersey over Cabot Cove, Maine, for sure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-72688830707036157322007-06-19T09:05:00.000-04:002007-06-19T09:05:00.000-04:00I have to run off to the day job (& then the Tues ...I have to run off to the day job (& then the Tues quiz), but the body count is detailed and comes from what's described as the "biggest fan site."<BR/><BR/>http://www.the-sopranos.com/<BR/>db/bodycount.htm<BR/><BR/>Are there even 10 "made" characters on the show? If there aren't then using the same calculation method we might expect the NY area "made" mob to be responsible for as many murders as the entire US produces in a year. I suspect in fact that the govt's figure includes A) the elderly, B) the incarcerated and C) the elderly incarcerated.<BR/><BR/>Has the real NY area Italian mob even kept pace at 1 murder/year over the past 6? (And what lame-ass "organized crime" that is!) If so The Sopranos would still be exaggeration by more than a power of 10.Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-77652158175253481922007-06-19T02:54:00.000-04:002007-06-19T02:54:00.000-04:00Where did the 79 figure come from? It seems a litt...Where did the 79 figure come from? It seems a little steep, as there have been 86 episodes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-91310958795660280252007-06-19T02:40:00.000-04:002007-06-19T02:40:00.000-04:00More numbers. I don't know what point you're tryin...More numbers. I don't know what point you're trying to make with them. My only point was that the mafia still exists, though in a greatly diminished state, after you claimed they were "over."<BR/><BR/>Remember the TV shows with non-mafia Italian-American regular characters in the majority with 211 to 6?<BR/><BR/>Those are just the shows, many of which have more than one Italian character, which brings the margin even higher. Those are real numbers, without any statistical manipulation.<BR/><BR/>I have a question about your criteria for inclusion on a list of depictions.<BR/><BR/>Where does a movie like Goodfellas fall? It was about Henry Hill (Irish/Italian) and Jimmy Conway (Irish),though they were associated with an Italian crime family. Does that count as a deciption of an Irish mobster?<BR/><BR/>What about The Departed, in which the Italian and Irish gangs were fighting?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-88420407478915892422007-06-19T01:48:00.000-04:002007-06-19T01:48:00.000-04:00"Let's answer an interesting question or two - why..."Let's answer an interesting question or two - why is that The Sopranos was developed because David Chase was approached to do a Godfather series?"<BR/><BR/>This is incorrect. David Chase pitched the idea as is, as he has stated in a number of interviews. When playing with ideas for a show about a guy in therapy to cope with the pressures of his job and dysfunctional family, he realized early on that a "regular" would just come off as a whining yuppie wuss.<BR/><BR/>He wanted a "tough" guy to talk about his problems. To a guy who grew up in Jersey, Tony Soprano is what a tough guy is.<BR/><BR/>Mario Puzo, on the other hand, freely admits he wrote The Godfather for a buttload of cash. <BR/><BR/>To quote, "I was forty-five years old and tired of being an artist. Besides, I owed $20,000 to relatives, finance companies, banks and assorted bookmakers and shylocks. It was really time to grow up and sell out as Lenny Bruce once advised. So I told me {sic) editors OK, I'll write a book about the Mafia."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-45292961842568200492007-06-19T00:55:00.000-04:002007-06-19T00:55:00.000-04:00I took another look at the link that provides the ...I took another look at the link that provides the 11,000 number for Italian mob in the US. In fairness it claims that there are 1,100 "made" members in the entire US, with 10,000 criminals who "work for" them. I imagine these subcontractors had the choice between this or orange jumpsuits in hollowed-out volcanos when getting signed up at EvilManpower.<BR/><BR/>In any event, the site claims 80% of these "made" men are in the NY area. Thus using Sopranos math [1.31 mob hits per member per annum] (and assuming "all work was done in-house" so to speak), there should be 6,917 Italian mob murders in the greater NY area since 2002.<BR/><BR/>Consider that the entire US has about 18,000 murders/year by the entire population of 300 million people.<BR/><BR/>How interesting also that there are over 15,600,000 self-identified Italian-Americans in the US and that 0.000705% of them are "made" mafia according to your figures. Are we really going to argue that less than one-thousandth of one percent of media depictions of Italian-Americans are mafia types?Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-32400783210742253382007-06-19T00:13:00.000-04:002007-06-19T00:13:00.000-04:00The 100%/0% thing was tongue-in-cheek.The amortizi...The 100%/0% thing was tongue-in-cheek.<BR/><BR/>The amortizing-the-Sopranos-whacks seems reasonable enough to me. I don't know how many actual mob guys are regular characters on the Sopranos, but I took a stab (no pun intended) at 10. Those ten managed to kill 79 people in 6 years.<BR/><BR/>If we're going to claim that there are 11,000 mafia members in the NY area who actually operate this way, we should expect about 100,000 murders since 2002.<BR/><BR/>Have the purported "Five Families" of NY killed 100,000 since '02? Have they "whacked" 79? That's all 5 families combined, have they killed that many people? Have they been implicated in 8 murders since 2002?<BR/><BR/>If we set the series during Prohibition this would still be exaggeration. To set it now and say "This is what Italian-Americans do near NY today" is just cartoonish, and obviously unrealistic. No problem in sci-fi, but attach the behavior to a real-life ethnic group and I'm surprised more people aren't upset.Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-56775927685929561772007-06-19T00:02:00.000-04:002007-06-19T00:02:00.000-04:00Apologies, I missed your list tucked under your im...Apologies, I missed your list tucked under your imaginary numbers. (Shame on you. Would you accept that nonsense from anyone else?)<BR/><BR/>I will <B>actually read it</B> it, and get back to you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-72942255338135366482007-06-18T23:43:00.000-04:002007-06-18T23:43:00.000-04:00Hey, I'm only using your numbers. At the rate the...Hey, I'm only using your numbers. At the rate the Italian mob killed people on The Sopranos, and at the claimed numbers of such by the feds, Ital-Americans in the NE United States should be pretty much wiped out in a month or two.<BR/><BR/>Do you really expect me to compile a list of all of the mafia characters on TV through the decades? I can't do that.<BR/><BR/>Let's answer an interesting question or two - why is that The Sopranos was developed because David Chase was approached to do a Godfather series? Puzo's fairytale was 3 decades old by then. Italian mob apparently has a "high Q rating." He wasn't approached to make an Irish, Russian or Albanian mob show. Why did he have to sell the family experience drama as a mob drama?Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-42533607744417555672007-06-18T23:24:00.000-04:002007-06-18T23:24:00.000-04:00"Thus it's Italians 100% All Others 0%."Now there'..."Thus it's Italians 100% All Others 0%."<BR/><BR/>Now there's a terrific use of statistics. It reminds me of the time Harvard claimed that 50% of the students caught stealing were Jewish. Actual number of student thieves = 2.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Though you did mention the one TV show yet again.<BR/><BR/>Here's an analysis of the highest- rated basic cable crime drama, The Closer.<BR/><BR/>Number of episodes: 30<BR/>Number of episodes with organized crime: 3<BR/>Ethnic breakdown of organized crime figures:<BR/>Italian: 1<BR/>Albanian: 1<BR/>Russian: 1<BR/>Number of episodes with a postive Italian-American figure: 30<BR/><BR/>The show is about the Priority Homicide Division, so most criminals are Snooty Rich White Folks (10), and a few about street gang violence (3).<BR/><BR/>Your made up numbers are amusing, but you failed to produce evience of the "endless stream" of Italians as organized crime figures.<BR/><BR/>You see only what you want to see. Or do you have a list? From what you say, it should be a big one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-34441745351193663112007-06-18T19:59:00.000-04:002007-06-18T19:59:00.000-04:00Cowbell - This is the first I've known you to acce...Cowbell - This is the first I've known you to accept a scary gov't stat at face value. Do you really think there are 11,000 mob members in NY? (Is that Italian mob..?)<BR/><BR/>Let's say that each one commits 10 criminal acts per year, which is less than 1/month, an absolute minimal amount of crime to be organized. That'd be 110,000 criminal acts per year! I don't think Liberia has had numbers like that in a bad year with a complete power vacuum.<BR/><BR/>According to the Sopranos Family Values fan site, there were 79 murders on the show over 6 seasons. How many actual mob members are depicted on the show? Let's say 10. Is that fair? That'd be 1.31 murders/mob member.<BR/><BR/>If we run the numbers, if Sopranos was an accurate portrayal of reality and not a cartoon, there should have been 100,870 mob murders (alone) or there about in the NY area over the past 6 years. This is quite remarkable as the entire US hasn't had that many murders.<BR/><BR/>I love that we're counting ancient Romans as Italian-Americans! Why argue the accuracy of Little Caesar when we can jump straight to Caesar?<BR/><BR/>If we must, here's a very short, incomplete list of Italian mob films all made while the Italian mob was in steady decline: http://www.amazon.com/<BR/>FUGETABOUDIT-Great-Mafia-movies<BR/>/lm/3OARJN34XETQY<BR/><BR/>Is there any other ethnic-American group with that many films in the same period?<BR/><BR/>You're right, Cowbell, no other single-ethnic group mob show, Ital-Amer or otherwise, is on TV now. It is rare. To my knowledge, despite the fact that the Italian mob has long since not been a factor compared to other organized crime in this country, no other group got "their own" show. Thus it's Italians 100% All Others 0%.<BR/><BR/>This numbers game is all quite aside from the fact that one stereotype show is one too many. We can have 100 Cliff Huxtables and 100 Fresh Princes, but given one show of chicken-stealin' dice throwers the NAACP will make noise, as is their right.<BR/><BR/>As I've always said, I don't want to censor anyone. But I will use my right to speech to say "Hey, this blows."<BR/><BR/>Interestingly in places in the world where organized crime is really effective and really runs things, you don't hear much about them in the media. That's because the people in the media who report or write the fiction end up dead.Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-69377866352952128212007-06-18T19:23:00.000-04:002007-06-18T19:23:00.000-04:00Sigghhh... I never got the impression that the pri...Sigghhh... I never got the impression that the prison clothes look is what it is from that one article. I have seen several sources on that and I happened to link to that one article for some views of the long t-shirt phenom.<BR/><BR/>Look at this:<BR/><BR/>http://www.urbanmall.com/<BR/>newproducts/state-property<BR/>/state-property-jail-jacket/<BR/><BR/>There's a hip hop line of clothing CALLED "State Property" and they sell something CALLED a "jail jacket." This is one example of many.<BR/><BR/>Denial ain't just a prison camp in Egypt.Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-18866931022740686952007-06-17T22:12:00.000-04:002007-06-17T22:12:00.000-04:00"Who'd have thought that 40 years after the Black ..."Who'd have thought that 40 years after the Black Panthers you could sell <B>prison clothes</B> to black kids voluntarily?"<BR/><BR/>"Prison clothes?" How do you figure?<BR/><BR/>From the article about white t-shirts:<BR/><BR/>"Shapiro and Janha both reject the more sinister explanations that have dogged hip-hop fashion trends since sagging pants hit schoolyards in the mid-1980s: that they mimic and glorify a violent prison culture, where beltless cons stash contraband in the folds of one-size-fits-all uniforms." <BR/><BR/>Intereting conclusion you drew from that tiny passage in a long article.<BR/><BR/>When you see orange jumpsuits or pink underwear riding out of those ridiculous droopy drawers, perhaps then you can draw that conclusion.<BR/><BR/>I'm just glad no one is wearing their pants backwards anymore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-40005235806910802812007-06-17T06:16:00.000-04:002007-06-17T06:16:00.000-04:00http://tinyurl.com/ytvkmbThat tiny link is for the...http://tinyurl.com/ytvkmb<BR/><BR/>That tiny link is for the Cosa Nostra page at the Department of Justice website.<BR/><BR/>They report the mob as greatly diminished, confined largely to New York, but with 11,000 members, not quite done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-45139368085997581762007-06-17T06:07:00.000-04:002007-06-17T06:07:00.000-04:00It's getting pretty obvious that you're not going ...It's getting pretty obvious that you're not going to allow your perception to be changed. <BR/><BR/>You've taken a rigid "I'm right about this" stance which is difficult to converse with if you're going to dismiss evidence to the contrary.<BR/><BR/>I didn't say there were only 6 mafia figures depicted on any TV shows. What I said was only 6 TV shows had regular characters that were mob figures.<BR/><BR/>There were 211 shows with people of Italian descent. That seems to me that the portrayal of Italian-Americans as regular folk and heroes far outstrips the bentnoses.<BR/><BR/>You find it hard to believe, I think, because you don't want to.<BR/><BR/>I watch TV all day, every day. Especially cop shows. On the 3 CSI series, most of the organized crime is Colombian and Russian. On the 3 Law & Order shows, most of the organized crime is Russian, Chinese Tong gangs, and South American drug cartels. There are more Italian cops and lawyers than wiseguys.<BR/><BR/>Your examples of racist shows that don't exist are a tad facile, as the Sopranos is not, and never was, The Big Dumb Wop Hour.<BR/><BR/>You say that there's an "endless stream" of this stuff, so name some.<BR/><BR/>What was the last major motion picture about the Italian mafia?<BR/><BR/>What other TV show besides the Sopranos?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3793847675654579199.post-9513688361418320302007-06-16T10:36:00.000-04:002007-06-16T10:36:00.000-04:00Links are hard to post in the Comments, it's my on...Links are hard to post in the Comments, it's my only complaint about Blogspot. Not a setting I can control. One thing might be would be to convert any long URL to a tinyurl at tinyurl.com ..?<BR/><BR/>I find it extremely hard to believe that in the history of TV there have only been 6 Italian mafia figures depicted.<BR/><BR/>Regardless, would one Chinee Laundry Put Pee Pee in Your Coke Show be OK? Would the Jewish show I described in the OP (original post) make it to TV? People would complain about those. (I've never been asking anyone to censor anything by the way; I'm just using the same 1st Amendment rights HBO is using.)<BR/><BR/>Fat Tony is something of a stereotype of a stereotype. I would take the assumption that Springfield has a Little Italy with a mob in the same vein as them having a 10-year tire fire or a Hammock District.<BR/><BR/>I never claimed that there weren't any non-Italian mob movies, just that the proportions of them have been Italian out of proportion to the reality of how mob in America is actually distributed. The Godfather trilogy by itself likely outstrips the Russian and Albanian mafia output of this country combined.<BR/><BR/>It took about 4 months, but I've finally hit upon a subject people want to post about! I have to get around to actually updating the rest of the site now, will check in again on this in a couple of days.Chris Randolphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708787725894726540noreply@blogger.com